Theodore Nottingham Interview
Ted Nottingham is the author of
twelve published books in a variety of genres, including nationally televised
works. He is a publisher, television producer, translator and an ordained
minister. Many of his books are presented at GIG's Books section. To find
our more please visit his homepage.
GIG: When I first got to know you a
bit better I suggested that you might submit some of your articles and reviews
to us. All of a sudden you posted a great flow of articles and reviews, although
you are fairly busy. Looking at what you are doing can you tell me first on how
you find the time to be so productive?
Ted: I have learned over
the last quarter of a century of being in the Work that Gurdjieff's concept of
"super efforts" is a key aspect of spiritual evolution. This same idea can be
found even more vividly expressed in the ancient teachings of Eastern
Christianity where the teachers of spiritual awakening developed specific terms
such "askesis" (practice), the Russian term "podvig" (daily spiritual struggle),
and a host of other methodologies for psychological and spiritual effort in the
moment that are fundamental to the process of living each day. In other words,
making efforts above and beyond what the natural inclination might be, and done
with a specific aim, becomes a regular part of one's life if a search for
self-transcendence for the sake of greater meaning is
significant.
GIG: It is interesting that you mention 'podvig' and
translate it as 'daily spiritual struggle'. Not knowing Russian I have tried to
find out the translation for this concept and in the absence of any decided that
I might just as well call it 'Conscious Labour and Intentional
Suffering'.
I am curious and would like to know what the expression
'ordained minister' means?
Ted: After some years studying the
Work, I found the parallels in teachings such as are presented in "The
Philokalia" as well as in the writings of the Christian mystics across the
centuries. Contemporaries like Thomas Merton also helped to create a bridge into
the inner teachings of Christianity, along with the insights of Maurice Nicoll.
I pursued my studies by entering a seminary for a masters degree, and was then
ordained into a Protestant denomination.
I am now a pastor and spiritual
teacher within the framework of a community of faith. For those who understand
the technical language of the Fourth Way, this provides exceptional Third Force
for one's aims. More importantly, it allows me to live my outer life in
conjuntion with my inner life. It is a rare privilege.
GIG: Tell
me about your contact with the Gurdjieff Work. What brought you to it and did
you and do you still take part in it?
Ted: Upon encountering the
writings of Gurdjieff and Ouspensky during an intensive period of searching for
deeper meaning in life, my life was transformed into a "before and after". After
that followed a time of reading all related materials and finding my way into a
school where I studied for another four years or so. That was an important
experience, yet one that paradoxically proved invaluable because I could
"graduate" beyond it. Much could be said about the pitfalls of so-called schools
and the limitations of the teachings presented therein. Gurdjieff made it very
clear that one had to learn to think for oneself. It is my experience that the
existing schools have done to Gurdjieff's teachings what fundamentalism has done
to Christianity. I would also remind seekers that the primer "In Search of the
Miraculous" was originally titled "Fragments of an Unknown Teaching" for a good
reason. I suggest to you that there is a point in the Work that is left
"unfinished" or without further elaboration for the very intentional reason that
seekers must make the connections and find the next step for
themselves.
GIG: I came across the Orthodox Work (as you know it
is also called Work) before I learned about Gurdjieff, but it started to make
sense only after a contact with the Gurdjieff ideas and a practical study of
them. In my view the the Gurdjieff Work is a good preparation for the Orthodox
Work - the "graduation" you pointed out. However, I know that this "graduation"
is just as much possible within the Gurdjieff Work.
I agree that if one takes
"The Fragments" to be the Gurdjieff Work then it is incomplete. I am surprised
that you consider the Gurdjieff Work to be "unfinished". The group-work, working
together in crafts, and taking part in the movements and having his own writings
to support the studies, the Gurdjieff Work answers the needs of a person who is
interested in self-development, a way to a higher level of consciousness. What
is missing?
Ted: There is an entire dimension of Gurdjieff's own
life and words that is generally left untouched or unspoken in the presentation
of the Teaching. For instance, Gurdjieff said:
"You must pray with your whole
presence and with all three centers concentrated on the same thing......From
realizing the significance of your neighbor when your attention rests on him,
that he will die, pity for him and compassion toward him will arise in you, and
finally you will love him; also, by doing this constantly, real faith, conscious
faith, will arise in some part of you and spread to other parts, and you will
have the possibility of knowing real happiness."
These words take us
beyond the diagrams, the cosmology, the ribald behavior, to a man of authentic
and deep spirituality. There are anecdotes from persons close to him, such as
J.G. Bennett, that further confirm this fact: there was a side of Gurdjieff that
was not known or shared with his students. This man took care of Russian
refugees, assisted the local addict and prostitute in his Paris neighborhood,
was related to the Russian Orthodox Church to such an extent that the priest was
at his side when he died.
This was a man who valued real faith so greatly
that he had no tolerance for superficial piety or social club religion.
Therefore, he took an entirely different approach to share the Teaching, one
especially suited to early twentieth century agnostics who were in search of
something that could not be identified with external religion. In this way, he
was able to reach people who would never have made their way into a transforming
spirituality. He bypassed old associations made with the ideas of Christ which
automatically cut the seeker off from the life-giving teaching behind the
words.
I have found this issue of students not understanding the true
direction of their teacher's inner life to be true for Karlfried Graf Durckheim.
Many of his followers stayed with his early writings dealing with eastern
thought and refused to acknowledge that the last ten years of his life -- the
apex of his wisdom -- ended up being founded on the spiritual teachings of
Orthodox Christianity (particularly the Jesus Prayer) and brought to his work a
fullness and completion that was lacking in the early days.
The same is
true with Gurdjieff whose nature was profoundly spiritual and rarely understood
by his western students who were looking for esoteric lore and self-empowerment
rather than genuine transformation leading to humility and goodness. Also, most
people of the west know nothing about the form of eastern Christianity that was
part of Gurdjieff's world. The break between Rome and Byzantium in 1054 has
continued to this day, although these ideas are beginning to
surface.
Students who reject any relationship between Fourth Way
teachings and spiritual wisdom are generally focused on personal power and
elitism. That is a dead end as is clearer demonstrated by the state of being of
many such persons.
It must also be said that Gurdjieff was a man of many
sides and certainly did not fit into anyone's image of a "holy man". Bennett
observed that, at the very end of his life, Gurdjieff's face carried the saddest
look he had ever seen. Nevertheless, his contribution is extraordinary and has
impacted many lives.
GIG: There are many examples in the different
writings of Gurdjieff's relation to Christianity. Before Ouspensky met Gurdjieff
Sir Paul Dukes heard him sing The Lords Prayer and saw the results of his work
with a priest in the Alexander Nevsky Lavra on chanting; Dr. Stjörnval thought
he was 'Christ himself' etc.. James Moore in his biography asks: '...was
Gurdjieff ever tempted to present his teaching explicitly in Christian terms?',
but does not pursue the question further. I think you gave an answer to this
question when you said that Gurdjieff bypassed old associations by putting the
Teaching in a new form. This form works still to-day.
It does sound like
you are dissatisfied with the way the Gurdjieff Work is carried on. Are you
referring to the secrecy about the Work and that it has been kept to only a few
who happen somehow to find it?
Ted:
Some self-proclaimed
experts on the matter (G.'s infamous "haznamus") have locked the whole system
into the events that occured between 1918 and 1949 and seem obsessed with
exploring that bygone era. They have utterly confused the message with the
messenger.
It is interesting to note how few of these organizations make
use of Maurice Nicoll's brilliant and highly applicable Commentaries which
enable students to do real Work on themselves.
GIG: There are many
who say they teach Gurdjieff's system or the Fourth Way. I was referring to the
only line of the Gurdjieff Work that I have personal experience of. Mine did not
have the elements you mention (at least not to an extent that it would have
disturbed me). I have met many people who certainly have not been 'crystallized'
in the wrong way. Being in their company has given me a 'lift' and these moments
are still live and clear in my memory. Nicoll's Commentaries were quoted often
by my group leader, Sam Copley, who was a long time student with
Nicoll.
To give you one example: I was invited to lunch at Jimmy's, which
was a Greek restaurant in an unused underground tunnel in Soho. My friend met me
in the company of a young man who was interested in joining the Work. We walked
from Piccadilly Circus through the busy streets and had our meal in the noisy
restaurant. I can recall details of all this to-day over 30 years later. I lost
the thread and went back to sleep after the meal when I walked back on my own
and have no recollection of walking to my office in Oxford Street.
This
awareness was an influence from a man, who was present, if not all the time, at
least most of the time. My friend is now over 70, taking Gurdjieff groups and
teaching the movements.
Your experiences of the Work are very different
from mine and I am puzzled. This is an important issue for both people who are
'looking for something' and also for people who have found some form of the
Work. The different organisations teach the Work based on their understanding
and experience of it; some have more some have less. Can you put your finger on
this problem?
Ted: I think some of the reasons for our different
experiences of people in the Work are the following:
-- I entered some twelve
years after you. Already the first generation had died off and was down to a
very few.
-- I entered a school which seemed very sophisticated and powerful
in regards to the teachings. It is international now in scope, but overshadowed
by serious misdeeds of the Teacher. This is where the really dark side came
in.
-- I think that in the U.S. it is often easier for organizations and
charlatans to turn something into a profit making operation. Also, young
Americans are possibly more naive than Europeans and others like yourself and
therefore more easily taken advantage of.
-- We are now fifty-two years away
from the "sounding of those first notes". This is a different era and a
different octave for the Teaching. G. was dealing with 1920's intellectuals. Now
the secret teachings of Tibet that he found on his own through colossal effort
are in bookstores on sale for less than the price of a sandwich.
Things have
turned over several times in human history since then, even since the seventies.
Humanity is different. I am not alone in the intuition that the Work cannot
exist in a vacuum, disconnected from all other teachings. But it is going to
take the ability to leap over great paradoxes and the overcoming formatory mind.
This is why there are so few who discover the link between Orthodox Christianity
and the Fourth Way.
I'm sure there are good people seriously doing the Work
now. But there is alos degeneration afoot, especially --as you know well -- with
the influence of the Internet.
I have found many people to learn from,
both in the Work and beyond it; people of joy, light, and deep consciousness,
but mostly from the side of mystical religion. The Goettmanns, key students of
Durckheim and teachers for many years in their own right in Europe, whose books
I have translated, are such examples.
The issue is that, as in all things,
the octave has hit an interval and for those who reject the new energy (making
connections), then it can only begin to degenerate. Truth and spiritual
evolution, by definition, cannot be the exclusive domain of
anyone.
GIG: In a recent interview I asked Dr. Sophia Wellbeloved
about some of the ideas that she puts forth in her 'Gurdjieff: The Key
Concepts'. One idea that cropped up was if the future of the Work could be
making it into a new tradition. If you were in charge how would you like to see
the Gurdjieff work to develop?
Ted: There is only one tradition,
and that is the evolution into enlightenment which creates people of compassion,
maturity, wisdom, and self-transcendence. Every generation must discover the
paths that lead to authentic transformation. It isn't about creating new
tradition, but about being genuine in one's effort to reach one's highest
potential.
GIG: You "graduated" and found contacts that worked for
you in the Orthodox circles in France. If you started to look for a teacher, or
an elder, where could you think of finding one?
Ted: There comes a
time when one no longer seeks for a teacher, but becomes one. The aim is to
learn for oneself and become what one is meant to be, not to linger forever at
the feet of another person. As for those just beginning the journey, there is
only one answer: "Seek and you will find". The intensity of the desire or the
yearning will produce results.
GIG: What I know of your own Work
is through your homepages and your books. Are you teaching apart from your
Ministry and if you do what form it has it taken?
Ted: The form
that my teaching has taken now is through the medium of being the pastor of a
community. The messages that I share on Sundays are all rooted in practical work
on oneself and the effort toward spiritual evolution.
This sharing
extends to personal counseling, writing for local newspapers and other media,
spending time with people in crisis, and reaching out to
seekers whose
"magnetic centers" can respond to what they hear from me.
The Work is
not for the elite (the word esoteric means inner not secret), but for anyone who
has a sincere desire to reach connected with a deeper part of
themselves
that opens on to encounter with that which is greater than themselves. Emotional
healing and purification, self-transcendence,
conscious effort, awakening
from sleep are the birthright of all who "hunger and thirst" for Truth and right
action in the world.